Mystiq.org - forum: Mace stun proc+ Stormherald proc -> Warrior -> Bugreport

Uvedomujem si ze sa to tu premielalo uz nespocetne krat ale bohuzial musim tuto temu otvorit znova.

Vychadzam z merani ktore tu robili hraci predomnou a ktore som vyhrabal z roznych topicov tu.

Mace stun proc tu vychadza priblizne 10% na hit (alebo teda 2PPM- pri 3,8 sec speede to priblizne vychadza)
Stunherald proc asi 5-6% na hit

Z nejakeho dovodu sa vsetci zucastneni v diskusiach zohdli na tom ze tieto cisla su spravne, ano jeden cas bola na ofiku stun specka pocitana ako PPM a teda cisla by sedeli. Mace specka bola ale este na BC nerfnuta. Ano musim uznat ze zmatok v tom maju aj samotni hraci ktori sa vyjadruju (a budem na nich odkazovat), ale nasiel som omnoho viac materialu o tom ze macka naozaj bola nerfnuta na uroven sword/axe specky ako materialu odkazujuceho na endBC PPM efekty.



Mace stun

1:Warrior guide
http://www.gamefaqs....sade/faqs/49970

"As of 27/08/07 Mace Spec is facing a nerf, it is already on the PTR
and reports state it has been dropped to a roughly 5% chance to proc, just
like swords. This is a rather large nerf"


2:Wowhead komenty z patchu 2.3.3
http://www.wowhead.c...-axe-or-a-sword

"...reduce enemies ressi by 200 or 5% to stun target for 2-3 sec?"


3:Vyjadrenie blizzardu
http://www.mmo-champ...P-class-balance

"...Yes, one of the changes is a reduction to the mace spec stun proc rate. It should still be as good as the other specs, just not clearly the favorite..."


4:Wowhead diskusia o mace specke 2.3.0 patch
http://www.wowhead.c...-specialization

"As for how often it works...it varies, depending on speed of your weapon. Presuming you have 5/5 Mace spec. then a weapon with 3.8 speed has ~11% chance to stun, 2.8 speed has ~8% and 1.7 speed has 4%. This theoretical data was tested prior to patch 2.3 and as such, is not likely accurate at all. The proc rate was nerfed & rage increased to 7 per trigger in 2.3."


5:Diskusia na AJ odkazujuca na ofi fora.
http://www.arenajunk...e-of-mace-spec/

"...Kalgan aka Tom Chilton made a post confirming a coming change will be a reduction to mace spec stun proc rate..."

"...warrior mace spec scales with weapon speed... so with a 3.8 speed weapon they will get around 11% chance to proc. proccing mace stun also gives warriors rage. compare: warrior sword spec -- 5% chance to proc sword swing..." Toto je funkcnost stun procu PRED nerfom.

6:Cela diskusia v ktorej sa riesi mace stun ako 2 PPM. Vsetky komenty PRED nerfom.
http://wow.allakhaza...6288194540&h=50


7:Komenty z wowheadu o Deep Thunder
http://www.wowhead.c...=28441#comments

" It is Mace Specialization in the WARRIOR talent tree that is being adjusted. They just want to make it even with Sword and Poleaxe, since Deep Thunder/Stormherald + Mace Stun procs = OP."


8:A konecne Blizzard patch notes
http://www.wowwiki.c...(warrior_talent)

"Patch 2.3.0 (2007-11-13): Has a reduced chance to occur but generates 7 rage instead of 6." Teda v platnost prisliel novy proc az v Novembri 2007



Stunherald

1:Wowhead o stormheralde
http://old.wowhead.c...=28442#comments

"I use this on my warrior and I love it. Honestly, the weapon proc is very rare. If I had to guess, it would be 2% or something."

"Anyone some data on the proc rate of Stormherald compared to Deep Thunder? I've heard that DT's procrate is about 2%, just wondering if Stormherald approaches 5% or something."
Odpoved:
"If you click on the green text of the item (here), it says its used by stormerald and deep thunder so i guess both have the same proc rate"

"Does anyone have this to see if it procs more than Deep Thunder? from what I've read about the second stage, the proc rate is very low. Does it go up as Stormherald?"
Odpoved:
"The proc rate is the exact same, as they are the same "spells" applied to both weapons."


2:Wowhead o Deep Thunder
http://www.wowhead.c...=28441#comments

"The proc has a VERY low chance, around 2%"

" procc is probably around 2-3% or so which isnt a huge chance but honestly this weapon excells due to the max damage and the stats."

(dava to zmysel ze budu mat obe taky isty proc chance)


Koment o ktory sa opierali ludia argumentujuci za 6% proc - je to len domnienka, aj sam autor uznava ze je to skor moznost jedna ako dva.
http://www.wowhead.c...=34510#comments

"The Stun-Spell TT says:
Apply Aura: Stun - Value: 1

So it could be:
Possibility 1 => 1% (which would be 60 / (100 * 3.8) = 0.16ppm )
or
Possibility 2 => 1ppm (which would be 1 / [ (60 / 3.8) /100 ] = 6.3% )

sadly it sounds like it would be possibility 1 - I'm not able to check it myself right now (blacksmithing 235 atm :D )."


O tom ze by mal mat stormherald 6% proc som sa docital len na mystiqu a nikde inde.



Co mne z vyssie uvedeneho vypliva?
Mace stun ma byt nastaveny na priblizne 5%
Stunherald na 2%

Aj mace specka aj stormheralda maju procovat zo vsetkych warovych abilit.



Edit: Prosim ludi ktori mi budu oponovat aby sem hadzali rovno podklady z ktorych cerpaju.

U zbraní je šance na proc definována v nastavení zbraně. Ne toho výsledného spellu který se spouští.
Šanci na proc vždy určuje nadřazený efekt, ze kterého proc vzniká (zbraň, ench, spell) a nikoliv výsledný efekt, který se procnutím spustí. Proto je potřeba zbraně nastavit samostatně a teoreticky nemusí mít stejnou šanci.

http://maintankadin.....php?f=3&t=8297

"i have kept a log of procs and it seems like a 1 to 2% chance to proc on deep thunder."

"It's no different, Stormherald is ppd (procs per day)."


http://www.wowhead.c...herald#comments

"The proc rate is the exact same, as they are the same "spells" applied to both weapons. http://www.wowhead.com/?spell=34510"


http://retribution-p...3/deep-thunder/

"The Proc rate on Deep Thunder/Stormherald is a rather disappointing ~1% IIRC, more of a supplimental PvP bonus for Mace-spec MS-monkeys than passive SoJ."


http://www.wowhead.c...-axe-mace-sword

"Deep Thunder/Stormherald+Mace Spec=~13% chance per swing to stun. 2.2.3 slightly nerfed this as the % chance to proc is now based upon the weapon's base speed" .... O ziadnom rozdielnom spravani tychto dvoch itemov ani zmienka.

Ked najdem dalsie hodim to sem.

ten komentář který vyvozuje, že při stejném výsledném efektu musí být i stejný proc není pravdivý. Je založený na mylném předpokladu, že data o šanci procu budou definována ve výsledném efektu, ale to lze použít jen u aplikovatelných aur.
Technicky vzato jde nastavit proc u samotného spellu, ale ten se vztahuje na jeho efekty, nikoliv na samotný cast. Pokud by byl proc nastavený přímo ve stunu, znamenalo by to že spell by se používal prakticky při každé ráně, ale samotný efekt (stun) by měl danou šanci na proc. To je ale nesmyslná představa jak z pohledu teorie, tak z pohledu praxe. V tomto případě má totiž spell "stun" přímo v blizzardovském DBC nastavené 101% (no prostě jistota že efekt procne při použití spellu).

Hadam najlepsie co som vobec nasiel, linky na ktore sa odkazuje sice uz nefunguju ale quotacia tam je a hovori jasne

Druhy post

http://www.mmo-champ...-S3-Sword/page8

Quote

Z toho druheho zdroja je jasne ze deep thunder aj stormherald mali proc taky isty kedze hodnota mala platit pre obe.

Z tychto ofi merani dokonca vychadzaju tie cisla pre stormherald este mensie. Myslim ze 17 000 hitov na ofi mozme povazovat za vcelku dobru predlohu.

miss

Rohipnol, on 24 September 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

no ja som hraval na viacerych serveroch tbc (iba free viac ako 5 nie raz za wariora) a islo my to podla mojho zistenia tak ako to uvadzas ty visie ale tuna to procuje hrozne casto, ale asi to vecine nevadi kedze maju sami wariorov alebo z nimy chodia areny.

This post has been edited by napoles: 17 February 2013 - 09:16 PM